Comments for Working on Living—through philosophy

Comment on Conversing with the Universe by Chris

Chris — Thu, 21 Mar 2013 01:59:26 +0000

It seems when you are aware that the masks you wear in society are just that, masks, and not your genuine identity, it should actually become easier to wear them and play the roles other people call you to play with a certain lightness and flair. Hating all masks and trying to outright do away with them seems to lead to the vulgar sort of, what I’d call, affected or phony “spontaneity.” Not true spontaneity because it’s trying to be spontaneous. It is just another mask. Maybe genuineness, authenticity, spontaneity, whatever you will, isn’t found in being literally unmasked, but in swapping out various masks with a bit of vigor and humor. Or like the phrase goes, “wearing life like a loose garment.”

Comment on Why Not Suffering? Buddhism, Nietzsche, and the Value of Suffering by Wrisley

Wrisley — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:10:28 +0000

Derik,

Perhaps I have a shallow understanding of Buddhism. It seems rather to met that you have not really read what I’ve written for this post or others. I’m, of course, familiar with Zen, Nagarjuna, Daoist writings, etc. A point that you seem to have missed is the distinction between suffering and pain. I take it that one of the profound insights of Buddhism is the way it distinguishes pain from suffering. Pain is unavoidable, suffering is not. So, through Buddhist practice, pain happens, but suffering is lessoned or brought to an end. The interesting question regarding what Nietzsche says is: what does that distinction imply for his calling into question the negative valuation of suffering that we find in Buddhism? I read Nietzsche as insisting that the “Dionysian affirmation of the world” requires embracing suffering, not “merely” embracing pain. Insofar as that is correct, such an affirmation of life is incompatible with enlightenment, whether Zen or other conceptions of it.

Comment on Why Not Suffering? Buddhism, Nietzsche, and the Value of Suffering by Derik

Derik — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 10:35:15 +0000

You have a rather shallow understanding of Buddhism. Buddhism has so many branches and a rich history of real philosophy (start with Nagarjuna and the book of the Tao as well as Zen Buddhist writings). Zen Buddhism pretty much outlines your central thesis already, does not stress Suffering, does not believe or ignores reincarnation. A Zen Buddhist would not deny suffering in such a way. A Zen Buddhist would not say “I am in pain.” He would say “Pain happens.” Pain happens because it is unavoidable. There simply is no “I”. Their radical negation of essence and ego is certainly one Nietzsche would have admired had those works been available to him. As it was Nietzsche had favorable things to say about Buddhism as he understood it (only through secondhand sources such as Emerson). What is satori if not “a Dionysian affirmation of the world as it is, without subtraction, exception, or selection—it wants the eternal circulation:—the same things, the same logic and illogic of entanglements. The highest state a philosopher can attain?”

Comment on Death and the (Mistaken?) Privileging of Consciousness by Dakine

Dakine — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 19:42:35 +0000

Interesting thought! I recently have been running into “consciousness” themes in my daily life. I wrote about a mans experience in my blog to provoke this though and evaluation of my existence. Thanks for your opinion, it’s helping me work out my fear of not death itself, but losing the life I currently love.

http://dakines.posterous.com/note-to-self

Comment on Some Thoughts on Living with Pain by Wrisley

Wrisley — Tue, 22 May 2012 12:51:03 +0000

@Anon, thank you for the reply. It is so good to hear that something I may have said was inspiring, and the same about Jennie’s work. I’ve been fortunate that my pains have not been such that they have been able to wear me down. That is a difficult complication and one that would prove difficult to counter. Exhaustion would really devastate the psyche on top of it. I’m sorry to hear of your experiences and wish you the best, as well.

Comment on Some Thoughts on Living with Pain by Anon

Anon — Tue, 22 May 2012 03:21:15 +0000

I came to your blog through discovering the poetry of Jennie Wrisley online, which I thought to be very beautiful and moving. While I do not know your situation personally (only what I have read online), I would like to say that your post and her work were inspiring to me, despite what must be your incredibly painful loss.
I have myself, at times, experienced both chronic pain (back pain that lasted for months) and intense acute pain (labor, for example). It is very much true that suffering need not be experienced along with pain–much of it is due to our mental state and our perceptions about what the pain must mean. However, there were times when pain has just seemed to overcome me–in the sense that it wore me out and wore me down. Pain coupled with complete exhaustion–those times were the most difficult to cope with. From my experience, I would say, on a very basic level, when coping with this sort of physical pain, that the best thing to do is to make sure to get proper sleep, however possible, so that one can be as strong as one can be, both physically and mentally.
I wish you all the best.

Comment on Buddhism and Aristotle on the Appropriateness of Suffering Grief: A Further Mark Against Buddhism by Wrisley

Wrisley — Tue, 15 May 2012 16:32:37 +0000

Mrs. Poix, thank you very much for your comments. I appreciate them. What is your dissertation on, if you don’t mind saying?
Regarding your comments, you write, “The difference here is the clinging to suffering; suffering is an inevitability.Buddhists don’t want ANY beings to suffer. Suffering is not good….” Part of what I was trying to get at is that the blanket condemnation of suffering as “not good” is problematic. I take it that things such as old age, sickness, and death are inevitable, but suffering is not, according to Buddhism. It is the clinging that stems, ultimately, from ignorance of no-self that is what leads to suffering. Pain (both physical and psychic) are inevitable, but not suffering.
Leaving aside the problems with the idea of no-self and its relationship to clinging and suffering, a case can be made, and Nietzsche does it, for example, that suffering does not necessarily have negative value. The broader point I was making in this blog post is that to want to end all suffering is problematic, that there are times when it is legitimate to cling to certain things (people) and experience their loss as suffering and not just some sort of diminutive psychic pain. I understand that Buddhism doesn’t call upon people to become emotionless zombies. However, if one is well on the path, if one is being skillful, in the Buddhist way, then certain emotional responses (those characterized by suffering, not just psychic pain) either won’t happen or if they do, then they’ll be seen as unskillful, i.e., undesirable.

Comment on Buddhism and Aristotle on the Appropriateness of Suffering Grief: A Further Mark Against Buddhism by Mrs Poix

Mrs Poix — Mon, 14 May 2012 00:17:33 +0000

One more thing that I have to add, and I apologize but I’m working on a million other things right now, but you are missing also the point of right intent. When your relative dies and you are unhappy, that is natural and Buddhists will not fault you for that because your intent is to transcend the suffering, maybe you’re arguing that the value of suffering is at least creating that lesson, I’m not sure, but we are, as human beings, working on right intent and skillful means — we don’t say wrong or right — we say unskillful. It is unskillful to have an improperly dramatic reaction to the relative’s death, as much as it would be unskillful to have no reaction, as that would be emotionally barren. Think of that — what kind of emotionless sociopathic world do you imagine Buddhists to want to inhabit? You are trying to hard, here. Buddhism is just so simple. Compassion and right intent lead to skillful means and transcendance. Meditating helps you grasp this.

Comment on Buddhism and Aristotle on the Appropriateness of Suffering Grief: A Further Mark Against Buddhism by Mrs Poix

Mrs Poix — Mon, 14 May 2012 00:04:41 +0000

I meant to say that suffering is an inevitability in samsara. Buddhists are trying to get everyone out of it.

Comment on Buddhism and Aristotle on the Appropriateness of Suffering Grief: A Further Mark Against Buddhism by Mrs Poix

Mrs Poix — Mon, 14 May 2012 00:01:51 +0000

I ran across your article while doing research for my dissertation. I had to comment about your theory that the negative valuation of suffering is flawed, and that suffering is good in some instances. I think you’re missing the point. The difference here is the clinging to suffering; suffering is an inevitability.Buddhists don’t want ANY beings to suffer. Suffering is not good — but the way it is dealt with can be. It is about dealing with suffering that matters. See Jon Kabat-Zin. Hope this helps.